Side sleeping night speculation *think*

[bilbylove]

Originally Posted by miaow

Thanks for all the comments

She is a good little sleeper - generally I feed/change her and she doesn't really even wake up.

that's wonderful. Dreamchanges my midwife called those,

Tonight I tried my MM squares (they're the 100wt ones - I also had microfleece from spotlight, but found the MM better) - didn't help, as her nappies were soaked at 12am, and at 3am (i.e. now).

Yes, the MM microfleece is way better than the microfleece at spotters.
How big are your squares? Some people use rectangles, say 10 x 30cm - all depends what fits the nappies you are using (cut to fit).

I put a three layer bamboo booster (like the ones inside the BBB) on the outside of nappy in between wool cover - the front half of it was soaked too.

If she's a front wetter, you could also fold that booster in half and just put it in the front.

Am going to try a prefold inside a bigger pul cover next change....

what is the prefold made of?

I had thought of 'bed prepping' and when I was trying the BG2 on her at night I had her on a piece of thick wool blanket - but the thing is, the BB wool cover NEVER leaks - that is not my problem.

so if the BB wool cover never leaks, what is the problem then - i'm a bit lost now! Is it that you don't have ENOUGH of the bb wool covers? Is that the bit of info i'm missing (that would make me understand).

I have given my friend the heads up about a large cover - and if she doesn't have a wool one spare I have some bigger BB pul ones that I hadn't thought of using.

whatever cover you use, needs to cover the nappy entirely, but not be so big that you have tummy and leg gaps. With handknitted wool, you have more leeway, but it seems with fleece and PUL covers, sizing is more crucial to the fit.

I'm just wondering whether BBB are just not cutting it for us as a night nappy?

you've lost me again. If the BBB with the BB wool cover ARE working for you, how are the BBB NOT working for you as a night nappy?

If you open up your child's nappy combo, and the fitted underneath is soaked but they were dry to pick up, that is a sign to me that it's all working, but needs more boosting. Are you hoping to open up the nappy combo and find the outer of the fitted nappy partly dry? That will happen when you switch to dedicated night nappies in some situations. Like when i got a Lotus Night Nappy, my bub was saturating the boosters but the fitted shell of the nappy was pretty dry.

but it's not really comparing apples with apples to expect a day nappy to do what a night nappy does. Day nappy typically has HALF the amount of absorbency layers that a night nappy has.

Night nappies are more expensive due to the extra costs of sewing more layers into the nappy and the boosters - when you see how much bamboo and hemp costs, i think it's very justified. Buying your first one IS nervewracking, well it was for me. And the reality is, just like the day nappies, some products will work great for you, other products, no matter how good they are, may not suit YOUR bub's shape. Like i have bought some WONDERFUL beautifully sewn front snapping nappies, that don't suit my bub's shape at all. I had to work out by DOING, that my bub actually suited the side snappers. No way to work that out except by trying front and side snapping nappies on her, to work that out.

Do the front snapping baby beehinds fitteds suit her shape? If they do, at least that's one piece of information that might help you decide "i will look for front snapping night nappies" for example - cos you already know that type of closure suits her.

Front snapping night nappies? wild child, sandman, bits for bots fleece Ai2,
Front aplix night nappies? snoozywuns, cherub's kiss honeyboys,

I'll have to see how the Wild Child goes - of course I'm not really sure I understand about these more expensive special night nappies - they're not supposed to make it through the night in just one, are they? And therefore, if you need more than one, it gets very pricey!

my bub was in her night nappy last night for 12 hours. You do need a few in rotation, due to the drying time of them. It also helps to have more inserts than nappies. e.g with the AI2's, the shell dries much faster than the boosters.

Haven't experimented with the flongies/longies option. I have some reservations about wool on her skin, because I have eczema and can't wear wool - but I suppose trying it for a night wouldn't hurt.

The thing about the woolies, loads of people say exactly what you say, but in MCN woollies, the wool often goes through a different treatment. Apparently, it is frequently the type of dyeing and other processes that wool goes thru, that makes it itchy on our skin. With MCN woollies, many WAHM's hand dye the wool and control what processes it goes thru. There are organic wool options too - no dye. Once again, like most things in MCN, it's impossible to know for 100% before you try. That's why buying just ONE of a new thing to you and your bub, is a good idea. I tried ONE woollie on my bub, she wasn't irritated by it, i loved how dry she was to pick up, i had a go at handwashing and lanolising, that was fine - so all that gave me the confidence to get another one.

THere's great free patterns and advice on knitting your own MCN woollies on this forum under teh DIY KNITTING section - if you or a kind grandma can knit.

i have found, ever since finding MCN online, there have been SO MANY concepts in MCN that i could read about til the cows come home, but until i actually tried one out for myself (drypailing, woollies, night nappies, little squirt, using MCN when out, etc) i didn't REALLY geddit or believe it. THen the lightbulb goes off, and you're thinking "why didn't i do this earlier, too easy!".

You're right, bilbylove, exhausted and frustrated! Especially since I know she would probably sleep longer if she didn't feel wet!! Those liners are great, but just can't stand up to the flood beneath them!

my immediate thought is - she needs a night nappy.

Liners are made from STAY DRY fabric.
the urine should pass THRU the fabric to the absorbency fabric below
i thought what would happen (theoretically) if the baby outwet the absorbency layers, was that the OUTER material would wick (get wet).
i am guessing that maybe if their is not enough absorbency layers, maybe even the liner gets soaked too.
i am saying theoretically, cos i think i have been putting my bub in more layers of absorbency than she really needs, for ages (cos i keep thinking one day she will be a heavy wetter, might as well get used to it now), so we haven't been experiencing the drenchings you're talking about.

I read the other day, a NC mum said her bub was a heavy wetter around six months, then it calmed down, then became a heavy wetter again as a toddler - so maybe there are stages?

at your bub's age, i had my bub in malden mills windpro pockets with bamboo trifolds for night - and i would change her - her skin would be dry (if it was just a wet nappy) - i assume this was because the bamboo trifold was sufficient for her wee output. As she grew, and weed more, i upped the layers of absorbency.

Night nappies ARE meant to go all night, cos some bubs don't wake up overnight, or find "dream changes" too disturbing. you know what i 'm gonna say! all bubs are different.

my bub was fine for dream changes, but woke up if she heard velcro opening.

YAWN!!

my 17month old has just started sleeping six hours a night - i'm so grateful!!!

[miaow]

Thanks bilbylove!

I'll try to be a bit clearer, but first of all - my liners are big enough to go to the edges of the BBB and high at the front and back. She seems to sometimes wet more at the front and sometimes at the back - I just got about a metre of bamboo fleece, so I'm going to use some to boost both areas - so that will be instead of the prefolds, which are unbleached Indian cotton.

so if the BB wool cover never leaks, what is the problem then - i'm a bit lost now! Is it that you don't have ENOUGH of the bb wool covers? Is that the bit of info i'm missing (that would make me understand).

OK - the problem is that although it doesn't leak, her nappy is so soaking that the liners are not working and she feels wet (I mean she gets grumpy because she feels the wetness on her skin - as well as feeling wet to my touch). I need to stop the wetness from getting to her.

you've lost me again. If the BBB with the BB wool cover ARE working for you, how are the BBB NOT working for you as a night nappy?

So the BBB with the BB wool cover work, but just don't last as long as I would hope. But the thing that DP pointed out yesterday is that I am a somewhat vicious cycle, because I am changing her so often, I feed her to calm her when she's frantic and sort of half awake, and then this leads to more wee, which leads to more changes, which leads to more feeding...

Night nappies are more expensive due to the extra costs of sewing more layers into the nappy and the boosters - when you see how much bamboo and hemp costs, i think it's very justified.

Well, I used the Wild Child last night - and she did not need changing for five hours!! In my stupor I emailed my friend at 2.30am shrieking with joy - but DP reminded me this morning that I had actually fed her halfway through that time. But no matter - it's the changing I'm concerned about, not the feeding.

When she finally decided she was too wet and I took the Wild Child off her, it was wet to the point of being slightly damp on the outside, but I could actually have got away without a cover (even though I'd used a PUL one). My friend lent me some shorties, which I'm going to experiment with later today - but atm I am frantically trying to get the Wild Child dry to use again tonight I did manage to change her and settle her without feeding once during the night, which was a win!

She isn't irritated by the BB wool covers, but then again there is no wool directly on her skin. I'll see how she goes.

my immediate thought is - she needs a night nappy.

You are SO RIGHT. Especially after last nights experiment. I don't need 'a night nappy'. I need about SIX! But anyway, I bought a Whizz Kidz Nightz from B4B yesterday, which is a good start - and thanks for the heads up about the fastenings. The BB front ones do suit her, so I'll stick with them.

i am guessing that maybe if their is not enough absorbency layers, maybe even the liner gets soaked too.

This is exactly what has been happening.

my bub was fine for dream changes, but woke up if she heard velcro opening.

THis is my problem as well! We need someone to invent silent velcro! But this is the reason that I'll be trying to investigate the shorties!

Thank you so much for your response - I feel like I'm getting somewhere now!

[bilbylove]

so, the baby beehinds bamboo fitted WITH bb wool cover - great day option

night nappies take longer to dry, so you do need a number of them to rotate. Dunno how long your bub sleeps - how many feeds does she wake for during the night? Is five hours equivalent to two feeds for her? or one? THis might help you work out how many night nappies you need for one night, then i would multiply that by at least two.

my bub has some whizz kidz nightz too, excellent nappy - no stay dry inner in that one, so i put an microfleece liner inside to keep bubs dry. with a wool soaker over the top. so only SNAPS to undo, no aplix (for any dream changes you might try to do).

other no noise options are pull up fleece and wool covers, e.g bear bottoms at nurture nappies (windpro malden mills fleece) or disana wool soakers (the weewuns have those). (As well as the hand knit shorties, longies etc which are great too).

with your bamboo fleece, before you sew with it, it needs two hot washes and hot dries to make sure all shrinkage has occurred BEFORE you sew with it.

bamboo is expensive fabric, so i would suggest making templates out of paper or cardboard of the size trifolds you THINK you'll need. Experiment with those paper trifolds, folding them up and putting them in your DD's nappies. If the size is indeed suitable, THEN start cutting out.

i've been doing TWO layer trifolds and long skinny boosters that you can fold up - two layers is good for drying purposes. By the time you fold the trifold in three (or four), the booster in how ever many folds is useful for DD, you have quite a few layers with that.

Can i ask what your wash routine is?
the reason i ask, is that with drypailing, the idea is to use VERY LITTLE washing powder, and to use a non-perfumed, sensitive wash powder.
sometimes, people who are using the normal amount of wash powder, adn maybe using the smae wash powder they wash their clothes with, get a build up of wash detergent on the MCN, which can stop some fabrics working like they're meant to.

i'm just wondering if this might have happened to your microfleece.
when you said the microfleece was becoming drenched in the BBB - a day nappy - i thought - fair call - i understand how that could happen overnight with a heavy wetter.
but when you said the liner also became drenched with the wild child - which is a night nappy - that made me think - i wonder about the washing aspect?

with the woollies - if you're unsure about the lanolising - just ask, it's not hard to do.

i'm glad you got five hours out of the wild child, i don't know how long you got previously, but from your reaction, it's obviously an improvement. Do you know if that wild child is brand new? had all it's pre-washes? or has already been well used?

Have you seen the Night Time Liners on babysoftlandings? they are a different shape and larger than the ones you are using - just something else to consider. If you have heaps of microfleece, can't hurt to try another shape heh?

Another thought - you need to beef up your night nappy quotient and you need some quick drying options too - i reckon a number of home made bamboo trifolds, some long skinny boosters (like 10cm wide) some bigger liners and a few malden mills covers (which dry in no time) would help you out - while you save up, do whatever, to get more dedicated night nappies.

hth